Updating post from Reddit.
My mum has bought a small flat in Powys to rent out, it’s her first investment property and she has no experience as a landlord, but she doesn’t want to pay an estate agent so she’s said she’ll pay me to manage the day to day admin. I don’t have any experience either aside from law A level which is hardly relevant, I’ve done research about landlord licensing and Rent Smart Wales and I’m willing to take a course to learn more, but is this a bad idea? I don’t think she realises how much legal work is involved and how important it is that all the paperwork and contracts etc. are done correctly.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Yes it’s a bad idea, there are many risks and pitfalls involved in owning and managing property and you also need to deal with the many sharks that swim in the murky waters of BTL - agents, builders, tenants etc. If you are not confident and knowledgeable attempting to do this on behalf of a relative is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah I’ve been increasingly getting that feeling since I started looking into it
It can get very expensive for landlords either from bad tenants to falling foul of the rules. The growth in house prices and ability to deduct mortgage from rental profits means it's just not as viable as it once was to do it. NRLA could offer you some advice.
Consider joining. NRLA.
Most valuable resource I've come across by far
Yes this is definitely something I will utilise
Lease it to Powys Council for 5 years and forget about it?
You are right with rent smart wales there is a lot to do and you don’t want to get it wrong.
Can you elaborate on leasing it to the council?
If you'll be helping you'll need to register with Rent Smart Wales as an agent which will involve a short online course and exam.
Advertising can be done via OpenRent and NRLA is a great place for information.
It's definitely not a hands off job especially at first as you get up to speed with all the rules and regulations, find templates, etc
From what I can tell if she does the full landlord licence and we both do the rent smart wales training I can be authorised to act for her under her licence, I may do the agent licence anyway to cover all bases
You can only help with one thing without an agent license and they are narrow areas . e.g. arranging maintenance repairs is one, doing an inventory is another, arranging tenancy agreement is a third
More info here -https://rentsmart.gov.wales/en/requirement-assessment/agent-licensing/
If you think you’re out of your depth you probably are. If the tenancy goes wrong and you need to evict there are a hell of a lot of ducks to line up. One mistake and your non-paying tenant could be off the hook. Or you may just get lucky, a lot of people do.
Use a digital agent like Open Rent. It’ll guide you through everything and ensure you’re compliant. If an estate agent can do it then it’s not rocket science ;)
I’ve just had a quick look at the website, is it an instructional course or a listing site that guides you through?
She should probably consider selling it I'm sorry to say.
Why do you say that?
It’s really not that hard. You don’t need to do a course. Use OpenRent and do a little bit of reading. Good luck
You do in Wales.....you need to do landlord training and exam to get your license sadly.
Yes but it's not that difficult!
Don’t know why you’ve been downvoted. It’s not that difficult.
Me neither. I'm a landlord of a flat in Wales and have literally done all the courses etc. myself.
Read the independent landlord
Hi. I'm a similar position to you. DM if you like.
What I've learnt past few months is:
Full Management (10% monthly plus killer fees): To deal directly with the tenant with everything (maintenance, rent payment, contact etc) But still all comes down to you for final say. They charge for callouts too. Legal help is good I suppose but you can learn a lot through the RSW landlord licensing course. You can apply for a license and register as landlord just yourself & not your mother and let on her behalf. Check the leasehold first to see if there's a clause for not being able to let.
Let Only (No monthly fees but one off-fixed fee of month's rent plus vat): They find you a tenant and you then manage. Need license too. Bit more economic, you arrange deposit and inventory but I think other than that agents won't be bothered finding you a 'good' tenant because there's no work involved for them afterwards, or money for them other than contract fees I think. Whereas in full-management they'd have to deal with the tenant so they'd have a reason then to find a good one. Might as-well find your own at this point.
Privately, you save potentially thousands. You need: EPC, EIRC, Gas certificate & Co2 alarms (if applicable) hardwire smoke alarms, govt.backed deposit scheme, landlord insurance, RSW license and NRLA for the ASTs & inventory and legal updates and advice. Also soon, around 2030, there will be a legal requirement to not be able to let unless your EPC is a C grade! You'd also need to legally apply on a data collection website when dealing with tenant's information when contract is signed. It's pretty inexpensive. A maintenance man too is a must.
When it comes to legal stuff, I worry too but so far I think make sure the contract is legally bound and signed within I believe a week of the tenancy start, the deposit is legally in deposit scheme and you have all the certificates, it's fine...? Some agencies and landlord insurance too provide rent-arrears payments I think. When it comes to rent-arrears, I think the best method is precaution. Vet the tenant for criminal charges, bank statements of previous income & rental payment, credit check and another benefit with private is that you know exactly who is going into the property. I read there are a lot of 'cowboys' who know the law well in order to mess you about but maybe I'm wrong. I read somewhere (paraphrasing): 'don't have a tenant whom you wouldn't invite into your home'.
Someone correct me if I'm misinformed.
But yeah, privately, I'd use Open Rent. Don't use their template forms or holding deposit. Deposit scheme I think is good? They have an option for collection too. Tenant pays them, to you. They then post to all the major advertising sites. I've read RightMove went but I can still see OpenRent on RM properties so idk
Thank you! I’ll dm you now
Day today admin. There really isn’t much to the day today.
However you need to get gas certificates rental licences. Remember the taxman needs his cut as well.
My husband doesn’t bother with an agency either. He feels it’s unjust paying someone else when he can do the tasks himself. He also has peace of mind as when a problem arises the tenant tells him & he gets things sorted out with a couple hours. Usually a large chunk of time is getting a part. But the job is done by the end of the day.
Yeah I meant day to day as a broad term, I’m not financially responsible and I won’t be paying for any maintenance or repairs etc. but I will be the point of contact for the tenants and will handle advertising and vetting potential tenants. The taxman and all the licences and the contract is what I’m concerned about because a slight mess up can have a huge impact.
As well as the legal side, keep in mind this will be someone's home. Being homeless is no joke so please make long term plans to keep the place, not short term unless you're up front about that.
If you want to turn this into a career that you will do professionally one day you could think of it as boot camp steep learning curve time. The information is out there. If you don't, stay well away. She can do the work herself or pay an agent.
NRLA while being very weak advocating for landlords against government is nevertheless a great resource for things like tenancy agreements and legal advice .
Here's a quick list of what you need that will be intimidating but gets easier the more you do it. Others will no doubt add to or correct me.
As well as the AST you will need to provide the following documents in order to rent out:
Gas cert - renew yearly
Elec cert EICR - renew 5 yearly
EPC minimum 'E' renew 10 yearly. You might already have one from the purchase
Deposit Protection Certificate - showing you have protected the tenant's deposit.
'Information for Tenants' - published by government but must be provided to the tenant by you.
'How to Rent' document - published by the government but must be provided to the tenant by you.
HMO Licence - maybe depends upon property type and area 5 yearly apply to local council.
GDPR provide a GDPR statement and register with ICO - grey area.
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Right to Rent - landlords are now the unpaid arm of border control. You are responsible for ensuring anyone you rent to has the right to be in the country. If you reference the tenant(s) through something like https://www.tenantref.co.uk/ (no connection) they can check this for you.
Finally remember a bad tenant is much more expensive than an empty property. Tenants should pass references. and you should show the property yourself so you can ask the tenant friendly questions to see if they seem to be who they purport to be. Seems paranoid but you need to be cautious.
Owning a tenanted property is more than just putting money into a property and then treating it as a cash cow, which is unfortunately what it seems your mother has done. I don't mean to be rude here, but she's basically bought a business without realising it. Renting is not passive income, it only becomes anything close to being so if you pay other people to do the plethora of work required.
The reason this is a problem is because landlords like this don't treat their tenants right, because they don't know or even realise they need to do so. I've seen posts from people expect their tenants to actively maintain and improve the property for them, like they should be thankful for the opportunity to rent it.
You also open yourselves up to a world of pain if you don't set up your tenants with all the correct paperwork and checks...it's easy to find yourself with a non-paying tenant who will basically never have to leave, if you don't get your ducks in a row...and they'll be plenty of people, including the council who would otherwise have to house them, telling them exactly what to do to stay there.
This is a business. And not an easy one. If you're not looking to run a business, get an agent involved at the very least. They should get the paperwork sorted as a minimum, even if you do then want to keep an eye on the property and tenant's satisfaction yourself.
If you act as an agent, then that’s just gonna cause big problems for you.
The better way to handle this is for you to be listed as a joint landlord.
No you will be fine. Like any job, you will learn from experience. There’s a checklist to follow, to make sure you’re doing everything you need to do.
Being a landlord is a job and a hefty responsibility.
You can get precedent agreements etc. which will cover the basics and there’s plenty of landlord forums and advice on finding tenants and what documents to provide.
But essentially the relationship is that it is the tenants home but most of the responsibility is on the landlord. Any repairs that involve HHSRS hazards need to be repaired urgently, so a landlord must ensure they have available funds for this. There are legal and financial ramifications for a landlord not meeting their duties.
At the end of the day the heyday of the buy to let landlord is ending. It can still be a solid investment as there’s increase in the asset value and the potential for a small income, but like anything that comes with risks and obligations. I wouldn’t suggest anyone without the knowledge, means or capacity to meet those obligations become a landlord, invest the money elsewhere