Updating post from Reddit.
Hi all,
Recently we vacated a 9 month rental as we bought a property of our own. Everything above board; Landlord provided us with a deposit certificate, with TDS, in the insured scheme. The deposit is held by the estate agent.
The tenancy ended in slight acrimony, he was very unhappy we asked to leave early so as to move into our new property. We arrived at a deed of surrender agreement, all signed and it involved us paying a fee to mitigate his losses. They quickly found a new tenant who has now moved in.
Predictably, the landlord has raised a number of issues they feel the property has, namely the carpets (which we paid to get professionally cleaned) and the garden. He has proposed £800 of deductions which we don't agree. After some back and forth it was clear we were not going to arrive at an agreement. We have therefore told the landlord we plan on raising a dispute with TDS and letting them handle it. He is adament this requires his consent and that he doesn't agree to any outcome.
Is he right? Any input would be appreciated, thank you!
If he does not engage the TDS will just rule against him. Just go to the TDS.
Just this. Its exactly what the scheme was set up for.
Thank you. I thought that was the case but his language seemed to suggest he knew something I did not! I have raised the dispute with them
Hes just peeved OP and knows hes not going to get anywhere. Im a LL but the number who think they can demand new for old is staggering.
Unfotunately though I think he will let this run its course, hes obviously committed himself to a route of action he’d struggle to u-turn over i.e. claiming damages or some form of ‘loss’, £800 quids worth???, so youve still a delay whilst TDS deal with it. Plus annoyingly its no skin off his nose delaying by going through the TDS.
Get it raised asap. 👍
They can rule all they want, TDS isn’t holding the money so they can’t give it back to the tenant, it’s in an insured scheme not a custodial one.
The landlord doesn't have to engage TDS, but if he doesn't it is looked on very unfavourably by the courts when he inevitably takes you to court for the money.
The whole point of the deposit schemes was to ease the burden on the court. They always look unfavourably on landlord's who don't engage with it before raising it to court.
Engage TDS on your side, keep evidence of communication with landlord (email, text or written ideally for evidence).
Thank you. I suspect his reasons for not wanting to use it maybe suggests he is aware his claim is very weak.
And that's the courts usual position for landlords who avoid the dispute schemes.
Why would the landlord take OP to court? He technically has the deposit already
Depends on the deposit scheme used. Either the scheme has the money or the Landlord does. If it was deposited in the scheme then only the scheme can return it and in case where theres dispute it can go to court. If the landlord has the money, the the tenant would need to raise a claim for the money. Either way it end's up in court the judge would look negatively on the party that refused arbitration.
The only way the landlord ‘has it already’ is where it’s in one of the insurance based schemes, which may allow the landlord to hold the deposit subject to the Scheme requirements. It is the Tenant’s money throughout, held in trust. At no point is it the landlord’s money unless or until a deduction in the landlord’s favour is agreed between the parties, with or without adjudication by the Scheme.
> The only way the landlord ‘has it already’ is where it’s in one of the insurance based schemes,
It is stated in the first paragraph that it is in an insured scheme.
Stop talking to the LL. Contact the TDS and start the process, request 100% of your deposit back. The LL then has a time limit to put their claim and justifications forward. The TDS will then decide what is valid.
Don’t waste more time talking to the LL.
Exactly - he wants to engage in an endless back and forth. Thank you for your input.
Yup just ignore and deal with them.
They will ask him for evidence to support his position, if he is able to provide then they will rule with him, however doesn’t sound like that is how it’s going to go down.
Keep your receipt for the cleaning of the carpets as you might need it
> He is adament this requires his consent and that he doesn't agree to any outcome.
He is incorrect. The deposit is protected for exactly this reason. He doesn't have access to it. Just go onto TDS and request its return and go from there.
Thanks for the response, I thought that was the case.
It’s insured (not custodial) so either he or the agent does indeed have access to it.
Ugh ok thanks for clarifying!
I have had a look at the site and can't quite follow the process, but I hope(!) that the landlord can't just say fuck it and keep the money, or else what's the point.
I remain unclear about what the insured scheme does, I presumed it meant that TDS would pay up if the landlord messes about here and recover the money separately. I don’t see anything to support that. As best as I can tell the insured scheme means the agent/landlord keeps you deposit and pays TDS what is essentially an “opt out” fee. Would be happy for someone to prove me wrong though.
He's correct in that, while protecting a deposit in a scheme is mandatory, using their dispute mechanism isn't. If he refuses to consent to them adjudicating on your dispute then they won't do it. If that happens, your only option is to go to court.
I would raise a dispute anyway, while making it clear to him that if he refuses to use that process you are prepared to sue. It may well be that he backs down when faced with it, or he'll take advice in the meantime. A court would resolve your dispute using exactly the same criteria as the TDS, but judges are understandably unimpressed with people who waste their time by refusing to use a free and professional alternative.
Thanks for this. Presuming he'd have to pay to use the courts - right?
Whoever wins ultaimtely does. In this case it's likely that the LL would be hit with the deposit plus court fees.
If he doesn't pay any judgement, you know full details of an asset to slap a charge on which can accrue interest, you're in a strong position here.
If you have to sue him, you'll need to pay the court fee which will be automatically added to your claim. The general principle is that the loser pays, so if you weren't awarded anything by the court you'd have to pay his costs, but if you win he'd pay yours.
However the court does have discretion where a party's behaviour deserves it, so quite a few landlords have been refused costs because they could have used a free service for the same outcome, and it's not fair on the other side to make them pay.
Only you know the strength of your case, but I'd hazard a guess that he knows he's on a loser and he's hoping you'll be too afraid to take it to court. Call his bluff.
As always, never take advice from your opponent in a dispute. You don’t need the landlord’s permission to dispute deductions from your deposit. Enforcement of the TDS decision is not subject to the landlord’s approval.
TDS is definitely the way to go. My son vacated a property and he and I spent a couple of days giving it a thorough clean. The landlord tried to claim £1000 for cleaning saying the bathroom hadn't been cleaned at all and the dishwasher was damaged. However, my son had taken a video as he left showing the whole flat, including the spotless bathroom (including the clean toilet bowl!) and had texts from 2 years previously reporting the damage to the dishwasher when he moved in. The LL hadn't done either a formal check in or check out list so he hadn't a leg to stand on.
TDS got him his whole deposit back in a few days.
Ironically, if the LL had asked for £100 quid for something specific like a professional oven clean my son would have paid it but the LL overreached and got sweet FA.
My advice to anyone renting is evidence, evidence, evidence. Keep the receipts, both literal and digital.
Usually in these cases this is handled by the agent, if the landlord used one. You provide evidence to the agent and they forward it to TDS. If no agent it's up to you.
Never hand such information to the agent, do it via TDS yourself (for the tenant, not the LL).
An agent is the agent of the landlord, not the tenant. Said as someone who has dealt with a fair share of dodgy agents over the years on both sides of the rental equation.
Yes agreed - I don;t want to disclose my evidence to anyone bar the TDS/Courts (if it ever came to that!)
The landlord is trying to pressure you into surrendering parts of your deposit before the TDS. The TDS are god in this case and everything HAS to go through them, the landlord will submit a dispute and then there will be an evidence collection phase and then arbitration. The whole process should take 2-3 months.
Given the claims against the carpet, if you have the evidence of professional cleaning (the reciept) the TDS will become quite entertaining as they will argue fully in your favour and suggest the LL invests in new carpets.
My advice other than just going straight to TDS is try bartering with your landlord at this point. Say you'll accept £600 deductions instead of £800 and won't contest. If LL does this they surrender more of the deposit which becomes available to you immediately and is completely protected from arbitration regardless of outcome. Then when you use the TDS system, dispute everything and cite the un-reasonability of the landlord in their disputes. I did this when claiming for my last rental and we got back a few hundred more than expecting as we managed to talk the LL down from claiming against more wear & tear in the property.
Thanks - I did offer a token gesture of £100 to just bring the matter to a conclusion. That was rejected however.
Very simple outcome if any party doesn't engage in the dispute (within a certain timeframe ie 14 days), then the other party wins the dispute / adjudication.
Basically, you have nothing to worry about as long as you dispute and submit the relevant supporting evidence.
He’s trying his luck, try not to stress, sounds like he’s doing the typical scumlord tactic and the TDS are well aware of it.
Raise the dispute. If the deposit scheme isn't already holding the money then he's contractually required to immediately send it to them so they can rule on it.
£800 is an absurdity as even if you'd damaged the carpets beyond wear and tear, they depreciate fast.