Updating post from Reddit.
I received a disheartening, racist and discriminating council tax letter from Kensington and Chelsea borough council addressed to a ‘Mr Don’t Know - Chinese don’t know- chines’. I was born from China but I am a legal resident in the UK and I love the culture here. It makes me sad and disappointed that it reverts my good impression of the equality rights in the UK. Will I ever be treated equally at my own residency in the UK?
After confirming it's a real letter, I made a formal complain through the Kensington and Chelsea Official Website and requested an investigation on this matter and possibly to receive a full reimbursement of my council tax. In about two weeks, I received an email which explains to me that my name was filled by the previous landlord and the letter was somewhat neglected by the worker who doesn't work there anymore.
They promised me that they would have a training for the staffs and ensure this would never happen again. Addition, they offered me £250 for my emotional distress. The email does seem somewhat genuine and I am happy to receive the apology, however deep inside, I am not feeling truly comfortable and the action they took seem quite easy, comparing to the distress it caused in my life and I've lived here long enough to understand that race discrimination is a serious matter. Would they do the same if the letter is addressed to 'Mr Don't Know - Black don't know - black '?
Now I have 20 days to reply them. What do you think to make it fair? I would love to collect some advice! I was considering to request for a handwritten letter or a chat in person, hoping it will make me feel better. Thank you, all.
It's an automated letter that's won't have been checked by a human. Even AI/keywords would struggle to detect that as it's not an offensive word.
Take the £250 and forget about it.
Exactly this. It's your landlord's fault, not the council, and £250 is a nice result, take it.
I’m not sure why people are suggesting claiming more damages. There literally isn’t anything to claim against, the council have offered the money as a goodwill gesture.
Worked complaints at a company where someone put the persons name as ‘Rude Wanker’. The agent didn’t realise an automatic letter would be sent to mr Wanker. Probably deserved.
Also worked complaints, seen some bangers like this. Equally annoying is where one dept adds DO NOT USE into an address line only for call centres to blindly send correspondence to it.
Take the 250, get down the pub and have a brew 👍🏻 lifes too short.
Yes, but wait until you get the 250 quid first. Just because the government promise you 250 quid does not mean you'll ever get it.
And go for a Chinese after the pub.
Thats another 250 right there
Agreed, and sorry you had to go through all of that. We are not the US ( thankfully) and compensation in England always tends to be on the small side.
I would take the money and let the matter drop. However if it's repeated report it to the police as a hate crime and seek greater damages
The reason compensation in the UK is typically lower than the US is because our law prevents punitive damages. In the UK damages received are usually directly related to the damage caused.
What is it you want from the Council from a legal standpoint? They have confirmed the details provided which you found offensive originated from the landlord. They have also confirmed that the administrative oversight was from a former employee who no longer works for the Council. They have apologised and offered you compensation for your distress.
Who exactly is it you want the handwritten letter of face to face chat with? Have you contacted your landlord to voice the same concerns regarding the information they provided to the Council that has caused your distress?
I don't think people know what racism is any more. This is what is known as a clerical error. Your reaction is what is known as 'fucking mental' and a dishonest grift for profit. Save your faux outrage.
I agree, there's plenty more disparaging words they could've used. I imagine there's a lot more stronger casual racism in China. Not excusing it but it's hardly even insulting and frankly not racist.
Agree, they are abusing the word and taking advantage.
Glad it’s not just me that thinks this
Was entered as “don’t know - Chinese” by the landlord, it literally isn’t the councils fault. If you order something from amazon and write the first name as “YouAreAPrick” will you then be able to blame Amazon? I’m surprised they offered you anything at all. They probably lied about staff checking, this was fully automated and they wanted to make you feel better as it’s an unreasonable thing to blame them for. Take it and run or speak to the landlord who actually passed on the CT
Just take the 250 and move on, in the grand scheme of things who cares! A free 250 quid
Fellow British Chinese here! I'm sorry that's happened to you and you have every right to feel the way you do.
Racism against Chinese and East Asians feels like it isn't taken as seriously as it should be in the UK.
But I would take the money and the apology and move on with life. I don't think you will get much more out of the council apart from more frustration. These big organisations can be quite impersonal, bureaucratic and cash strapped, so it will feel like shouting at a void.
But good on you for posting it publicly and raising it with the council. These kinds of small things happen all the time without anyone realising. I've been at the end of many micro aggressions that I never pushed back on. And some which I regret not doing anything about.
You have an apology, some compensation and a commitment to staff training. That is much more than most of us get.
Take the win. You did good already. Well done.
Thank you so much for your comment. I appreciate it!
I am not Chinese but another ethnicity. I have received some letters like this over the years (not from the local authority though) all of which are due to poor computer programs that don't deal properly with missing data., They are not remotely "racist". At the same time I am acutely aware of racism, and I think it belittles that to call this racism - sorry. I would regard it as an amusing life story, frame it, and move on.
I'd add to my previous note -- that the problem underlying the thing you received, is asking about ethnicity in the first place -- now THAT is racist but the type that we quietly gloss over (and even regard as a good thing).
How is this racist?
This isn't racist. You are Chinese. Being called Chinese is not derogatory or racist. You got 250 and they will rectify their system.
Treating people with prejudice due to them being a different race to you is objectively racist.
It may not be hateful or derogatory but it is systematically racist to allow landlords to submit unlawfully racially-labelled tenant data without having a human checking over it.
Edit: to the guy below me, maybe you didn’t realise but OP wrote their entire post in the Queen’s.
I would imagine they aren't referring to race but the language lmao. Thick motherfuckers be typing all sorts on here
Please Keep it Civil
The council will be responsible for making sure you’re not in a worse position than you started off. So, beyond the £250, I doubt you’ll get much else.
What exactly would a handwritten letter do to improve how you feel?
What do you hope to get from a conversation with someone?
Maybe a promise to train staff not to allow this shit in future?? It doesn't take much not to put something like that on a letter from the council.
OP says the council confirmed they’d do this in their letter.
It’s worth noting that these are mail merge systems with limited human interaction, so once the data is in, until someone flags it, it’s easy for it to be missed.
You would be surprised at what poor public sector staff using crap computer systems can do. One lot gave my NI number to a guy with the same surname and initial (a very uncommon Irish name) ended up being overtaxed for having a second job, took a decade to finally resolve.
Train Staff what ? It’s a mistake and worsened by some ill conceived humour . Sadly there is always someone keen to play the race card
Right so that's OK to log as a recipient for council tax purposes. You sound like you come from the same gene pool as the idiot who took that down as an address.
Let's see how that works out for you long term
Or the landlord entered OP’s name on the council’s website, which then entered their database without any interaction with a human at the council.
Yeah. Also shit and shows the need for actual humans in public service jobs
I would take the money.
I highly doubt you would be awarded more (if anything) if you were to take it further as there would need to be evidence of there being an impact to you, where the company was at fault.
I see that you have found it upsetting but I'm not sure there was any racist intent? The landlord stated 'didn't know' when asked to provide your name, and likely said 'chinese' if asked your nationality. The error is a clerical error and doesn't sound like it's anything more than that
If I got 250 quid and all I had to do was look at a letter saying ‘Mr Don’t Know - Irish don’t know- iris’. I'd be well chuffed.
What’s racist about it?
You really can’t see why naming somebody Mr Chinese just because it’s their race when you could’ve asked & used their name, or simply said “don’t know” is racist?
Calling a person Black is not the same as saying someone is Chinese.
Had it said “dont know - yellow” then that would be the same.
Honestly, though, it’s a clerical error and unless your name isn’t actually a Chinese name then you can’t claim this was racism. Even if you don’t have a Chinese name the concept of this being racist is pretty weak.
I’d accept the money. I think it’s a generous amt.
I have full empathy with you & understand where you are coming from. Facing racism, especially subtle racism does something to the psyche and keeps you on the look out for what may or may not be racist.
I totally understand where you are coming from. Still, take the money or as the kids would say take the W, it ain't that deep.
& honestly this looks like a genuine system muck up, not something deliberate.
If deliberate I would say go at em but this very likely is not and the compensation shows fair intentions.
Settle coming from someone who isn't white either...
You made £250 using the race card. That comes out of other people's council tax bills. Take the money and forget about it.
Are you not Chinese? How is this racist? Pathetic
That is not racist. And not insulting.
Please stop looking for racism everywhere, there are stupid people around, there are rude people, there are peple that make mistakes and there are racists.
I would guess that they have your name in Chineese characters in the system and the person that had to fill the module wrote that as a note ... probably hoping for someone to review before sending.
Grow up.
Shit happens.
Saying "chinese" isnt racist if you are in fact chinese. WTF
More waste of taxpayers money. Try moving to China as a foreigner and see what kind of discrimination you have to put up with there. Just get on with it.
Since when is "Chinese" an insult? This seems like an offensive statement to imply this. Nothing wrong about China.
I would just be grateful you got £250 of taxpayers money for the inconvenience of typos and move on.
I would love a letter like that, with free cash too.
Roughly translates to ‘I wanted my council tax refunded and they haven’t given it to me’
Racist?
Don't make me laugh
I just applied for my provisional license and the dvla sent me one with all the correct info (my name, address, DOB, etc…) but my picture was SOMEONE ELSE entirely. I could have written this post clutching my pearls about the implied racism or I could have a laugh with my friends that the DVLA sent me a fake ID due to a clerical error and play a prank at the local pub.
Life is too short to be overthinking everything. Could it have been xenophobia? sure, but even then, that says a lot more about the person that made the mistake than it does about me! Don’t live your life like everyone is out to get you. Sometimes shit just happens.
I would take the money but also ask to get follow up updates on when the person or department that inputted that data, or missed it in checking, have received appropriate training, and to know what the training was.
I think you want to give it a rest fella and if you don’t feel truly comfortable then there is always the exit door to somewhere where you do
Exactly.
I don't think it was intentional. In a way it's good that you brought it up, this will bring about better awareness to a larger audience and organisations will ensure to test the use of AI more thougroughly, before using it.
Take the money. It’s not worth fighting, let’s be honest no one’s been hurt. It’s not racist if you’re Chinese it’s factual. It’s just laziness and not anything malicious.
I doubt you have a strong legal argument for higher compensation, but you can post also in LegalAdviceUK subreddit for their opinions also. If I was you I'd accept the compensation and move on
Why the hell wouldn't they just write "Occupier"??
Calling a Chinese person an "Occupier" may have similar if not worse implications.
💀
Swiss cheese effect.
It was most likely an autofield from an online form. So the landlord filled it in online and no one bothered to check the data set before pressing "compile" and then "print".
If it is council tax in a London borough there could be 40,000 ~ 50,000 of these being sent out at the same time so the internal mailroom won't have noticed it either as the machine does all the folding, eneveloping, sealing, and franking and just chucks them into an awaiting mail bag which gets thrown into the back of a royal mail van.
That bag then goes to a sorting centre where another machine sorts it by only looking at the postcode.
The postman delivering the actual letter just posts things, they aren't looking at the names.
This!
“Would they do the same if the letter is addressed to ‘Mr Don’t Know - Black don’t know - black ‘?”
I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you. But please leave black people out of this…
Yeah I don’t really understand the implication here or why this was necessary to include 🤷
Exactly. Based off that remark, it sounds as if OP might have some… ideas… of his own.
Presumably the name was taken over the phone at some point and the call handler couldn’t understand the accent, so skin colour is irrelevant. “Don’t know - Scouse” or “don’t know - Glaswegian” would be more comparable. And equally non-racist.
Apparently it was the landlord who registered the OP for council tax. One theory is that he forgot OP’s name, couldn't be bothered to find out what it was but wanted to ensure it went to the right person, so included an identifiable factor. Possibly would do the same if the OP was Welsh - “Don’t know - Welsh”.
Dammnn £250 nice bro
The previous landlord was the one who did something racist. An automatic system then sent you a letter that made you aware of it. The council and their staff didn't do anything to you, they are offering the £250 to be nice, not because they have to.
What do you want to happen?
Lmfao
suck it up and move on. they didnt target you, it was someone saying they dont know who it is, but its a chinese appearing resident. while silly they didnt do more to resolve the who before the letter, im sure youdont set out each day deciding what to be offended or butthurt over.
Graciously accept the £250 because to be honest, its more than anyone should get when an apology should be suffice and the promise that the employee will get enhanced training.
I think it comes down to who created this piece of data in the first place.
If it was the council then it's really up to you to decide whether the apology and compensation offered are enough.
If it was your landlord or another tenant then the council staff have been a little thoughtless but not intentionally racist, and their attempt to make things right seems pretty fair.
It’s not racists though.
I would take the money but also required them to introduce a procedure making sure that data obtained in such a weird way as in this case - from a stranger - is always checked by an employee, or maybe not to collect data in such a way at all.
If the name on record is in Chinese Font - which is not translatable, it isn’t racist. Get over it.
What in the living heck is this???? I'm glad they've offered you compensation mate. But I think it should be at least doubled. Some tosser took down that as a name worthy of filing as a resident for c tax purposes. Screw them
Looks like somebody has input data from a letter your last landlord sent them than deliberately racist (as stated in the response to your complaint). The process should have been to contact the person asking for further info. It's clumsy and they need better processes in place.
I find funny that the guilty employee doesn't work there anymore. Sounds a lot as an excuse, though...
Most likely a data input or general admin clerk that couldn't be bothered doing the job properly.
What did you expect from the typical KKK members?
I hope you donate the money to a British charity and don’t send it back home
lol take the money and shut up
The real racism is we're flogging housing on the global market while we have a severe housing shortage causing current prices.
Grow up. Emotional distress? Jog on mate. Refund your council tax? For putting some non-derogatory words in the name line of an address? You're getting £250 you haven't had to do anything for, that's a week's wages to some people you entitled fuck.
This has got to be a joke, surely?
Lol
How did the postman know where to deliver it to?
The address
The Occupier redacted to save further distress.
Oh. Silly me! I didnt look at it properly
Take it from someone who lived in that country as a citizen for two decades. They are racist. They will never stop seeing you as an intruder, and they will always blame "your kind" for their messed up choices and chavvy life.
I have finally managed to leave, and I live among civilised people now. I hope you find peace.
Get it in the news and get more. They broke so many laws here by holding incorrect data about you, plus the racism etc.
I will get downvoted and I don’t care - don’t listen to these people saying just take the money. There’s no excuse for racism, you should consult a lawyer and see if there’s more in terms of compensation that they can award you. A lot of people agree people of Chinese and other East Asian descent give a lot to this country and take very little. Unfortunately ‘Asian’ hate seems to be fine and acceptable in the western world. I would say explore this further
I abhor racism - however this isn't racist, it's a case of data being input incorrectly. If somebody did want to be racist to the point of deliberately targeting people I guarantee they'd have used more offensive terminology.
Data being input correctly would be their name spelled wrong, not just seeing a Chinese name and giving up.
It was data supplied by a landlord - the data shouldn't have been added to these mail merge fields.
Ah, so not a racist council worker, but a racist landlord. Makes sense.
Yeah that's pretty much what it would boil down to as surely the landlord would have had the right info?
I'd very much hope the correct information is in the contract aye, but you never know
You complete idiot
I'm so sorry for your distress, this is truly awful. If you want you escalate it to your mp and every department at k&c Council. £250 is nothing and you require a proper genuine review, compensation and apology.
Get on Google and get all the email addresses in the council and surrounding councils and copy them all into the email, complain bitterly. It's not your fault they choose to bully you rather than to do the job we pay them for. Their negligence!
Bullying requires intent. I don't see any proof that this was made with intent.
Well, it happened and they did it. Through their own negligence, also they'd need to prove it wasn't a council worker being mischievous. Now they are trying to pass the bulk.
If that route is being explored I would say that if this letter caused sufficient distress then maybe go down the Equality Act 2010 way.
FYI I am not a lawyer in any way but based on what I know..
It covers indirect discrimination or harassment (if it creates a hostile or offensive environment). The intent does not have to be there. It is about the distress caused.
Also there's the ombudsman but has it caused that amount of distress or are you questioning the intent?
If it is the latter, I personally would never pursue but I don't know you & you should do you.
Are you being serious ? One hopes not, being referred to as Chinese is as racist as being referred to as English ie it isn't
It's racist!
Couldn't agree more
Dumbass