Updating post from Reddit.
My dad has a tenant in his flat who’s highly disabled after suffering a stroke. The tenant has been there for 10 years but 5 years in suffered a stroke, and is disabled as a result. The property is currently borderline uninhabitable, and the tenant won’t leave because my dad was being nice and giving him below market rent, and he also doesn’t have money or capabilities to find another property. Additionally private landlords are not willing to rent to him even where prices are good.
The tenant due to his stroke basically shits and pisses himself wherever in the flat. The flat possesses immense odour, and all the fixtures and fittings are destroyed which the tenant is complaining about, New furniture/appliances can’t be installed when stuff breaks because workers refuse to install stuff in there. Major renovation works are needed.
Additionally the tenant needs regular hospital visits and the property’s only access is a 3 storey metal staircase on the outside of the building. So sometimes ambulance staff have to carry him up and down those stairs.
The reason this has suddenly come up is because my Dad hasn’t checked the property in a while, only recently when the tenant complained stuff was breaking did he go and check and discover a significant amount of this information. This is the type of situation where the council honestly needs to step in and provide some sort of care and appropriate housing because no one else will. But they won’t help, and so he won’t leave. What can be done?
I’m not sure if bailiffs will be able to even evict the dude because I’m also certain he won’t survive if he gets made homeless with no shelter or housing option for a night or two. But council won’t help for some reason regardless.
TL;DR: Highly disabled stroke patient who realistically should be in some type of supervisory care cannot leave the flat because council won’t give him accommodation. If he does get made homeless he would probably die on the street.
He needs a safeguarding referral to adult social services at your local council.
not Safeguarding - that’s specifically for if someone is being abused or neglected, what they need is a Care Needs Assessment, just to potentially save some confusion. OP - contact your county council and ask for Adult Social Care, but make sure you have permission from the tenant to make the referral or they’ll refuse it. Alternatively get the tenant to refer themselves if able, or family if they’re more comfortable with that.
Self neglect is still neglect, if he is not capable of taking care of himself and is not asking/seeking the help he needs. It can still be considered a safe guarding concern.
It can but there is very little anybody can do. Just putting the word "safeguarding" on something or even opening a s42 doesn't actually make a practical difference to anything.
IMHO (from health care perspective) this would still warrant a safeguarding referral for self neglect but if the tenant has capacity and is refusing help then there is nothing the health/social sector can do. If they have had hospital stays I strongly suspect this has been already been flagged to safe guarding team many times due to unsanitary living conditions, and likely tissue damage from self-neglect and during discharge planning referral to care home probably would have been recommended but if he has capacity then there is nothing the health and social sector can do.
If he is choosing to not seek help from appropriate authorities then it is not the LL's job to help him either. I'd seek eviction.
I had similar issues with an elderly neighbour at my old rented property. She had dementia of some sort, and was shitting in carrier bags and either flinging it into our garden or hanging it in the carrier bag on her outdoor bin, ready to add more. House was a state, she stunk of piss and kept falling over too. Lost loads of weight very quickly.
I rang safeguarding multiple times. They came out once, she basically told them to fuck off, and cos they said she had mental capacity, they had to just leave her be.
It can, but it’s unlikely and there’s a v high bar to reach, and frankly a Safeguarding referral is more likely to receive a “no” response in this case. Much better to submit for a care needs assessment, which is a process actually intended for this situation. Source - used to work at a county council and handled these referrals.
Lots of areas are unitary authorities not county councils.
They should contact their local council responsible for social care !
'A three storey metal ladder'. Really?
Older house. I had an edwardian flat, and the interior staircase was narrow. There was a metal fire escape at the back, which was wide enough for paramedics (or washing machines, etc).
Either this is fiction, or English is their second language and they mean a metal fire escape.
Apologies, I meant 3 storey external metal staircase. The flat is on top of a commercial property and it’s the one on the far right. The staircase goes to that flat only and no other, it basically just goes up to the top of the roof of the commercial property, across the roof of the commercial property and then into the flats front door. I
Indeed. Either this is complete BS or this is a great indicator of why why landlord doesn't seem to have engaged anything involving authorities such as social care for the tenant, or env health or even eviction proceedings
The tenant is getting social care.
I was thinking that…
Find out your local councillors. Speak to them explain the situation. This poor individual needs a care package, or a care home place. There may be some miscommunication going on, if the councillors are any good they should be able to help.
I think a care home, years ago I worked in a care home and there was a lady in her 50s who had a stroke in a wheel chair that was there. It was a terrible existence for her..
Unfortunately the system is rigged, if he's thrown out the council have to help him but while he has a roof they won't
Social services, I was 3rd floor flat got disabled and moved into ground floor pretty quick once i got social worker involed. Flat was outfitted for wheelchair access and so on. Tbh though he needs to be in a care home where he can get 24 hr help not be on his own.
I would ring the baliffs in advance and discuss the situation - particularly in regards to access and removing the tenant. Ring at the time their office opens/closes or they probably wont be there. Could be they may request special assistance to remove the tenant (fire brigade or ambulance service) who in turn would probably contact adult social services as they couldnt just leave a disabled person on the street. I would avoid contacting adult SS directly myself, as they may move to block the baliffs until suitable alternative housing is found.
Why do you think social services won't help? I'd be interested to know because he sounds like he is eligible for support, what he may mean is "social services won't help me for free". ASC is means tested.
So, I'm in a similar position as the tenant (highly disabled, though the property I'm in is uninhabitable as the landlord won't do the 25-30k worth of repairs the improvement notice requires).
Contacting adult care services with your local council is a must - the tenant clearly needs a lot of care. They should support him with getting a more suitable property quickly (and should really be looking at getting him into emergency accomodation asap).
The council should also be considering him statutory homeless (due to the property being wholly unsuitable for him), as a highly disabled person up a few flights of stairs cannot get themselves to safety if there was a fire. They need a LOT of prodding for that, though, which is quite ridiculous and something either the council and/or Shelter could and should help with. This would mean them being in the top band of priority for their housing lists and the speediest (and hopefully best) outcome all around.
I realise that none of the above is your personal concern, but it's a circumstance where you helping them to move on helps you at the same time. It's clear that the tenant, whether they like it or not, needs to move on.
Is there any way of you getting a cleaner in there to clean up (keeping receipt for claim vs deposit) so the workers can get in and do what they need to do, maybe?
I hope you're exaggerating when you describe the only fire escape as being a three storey metal ladder. Because I don't see how that can be legal. You say your dad is being nice by letting this property at a below market rate but it sounds like a deathtrap.
I meant a metal staircase not a ladder sorry. It’s just one of those external staircases you often see on the side of commercial buildings. In this case it goes directly to the flat (which is on top of a 2-floor commercial building.
It sounds like a piss trap too
And a poo trap
Your dad sounds like a really good person, a rare kind of human. It’s awful many landlords just push him into homelessness. He really needs help, and adult social services can step in to find him a place and offer support. He can’t keep living like this—it will destroy him.
A lot of people get depressed after a stroke. It turns their whole life upside down. Some just stop trying, not because they want to die, but because they don’t have the energy to keep fighting. And sadly, many men don’t seek help because they’ve been pushed their whole lives to just work and survive. Now, it’s like he’s hit a wall.
I used to be a carer, so I understand how the system works. The local council has housing options, and since he qualifies for benefits, he should be able to get a place where the rent is covered. I’m actually viewing a one-bedroom, ground-floor flat today for £400 a month—it’s within the housing benefit range.
I’m now disabled myself, with autism and ADHD, and it took me until 32 to finally move out because the system is so rigged against people like us. But there are ways to make it work. You need to contact the council and adult social services—they can arrange for carers to help him in his home. He doesn’t sound like he needs 24-hour care, and that’s only for people who are really unable to function alone.
Care homes aren’t the answer—they’re places where people go to die, and he deserves better. The UK government has found that it’s actually cheaper and leads to longer lives if people are supported in their own homes. What he really needs is a housing support worker to help him move somewhere more suitable and to get him the help he needs.
It's a very sad situation.
As others have said, the best thing you can do for him is express your concerns to adult social services. I think I would also explain to them that the property needs repairs that cannot take place with him living there, and you will have to start section 21 proceedings soon.
You will be in a difficult situation if the council's private housing team get involved to force repairs, so it's best to get ahead of it.
You need to involve social services, whilst doing so give them and the tennant the eviction notice. They will have the notice they require to make the council find suitable accommodation, the council won't act unless they are being evicted, as a disabled tenant they will make him a priority.
You say a three storey metal ladder - are we talking a vertical ladder or a metal external staircase?
> I meant a metal staircase not a ladder sorry. It’s just one of those external staircases you often see on the side of commercial buildings. In this case it goes directly to the flat (which is on top of a 2-floor commercial building.
Thank you for clarifying. The other down-votes were not required, reddit.
So it doesn't really sound like you had any problems till your tenant became disabled and no one is willing to help them.
The council should help and step in. I wish you the best of luck!
OP sadly your father needs to evict him on the grounds of needing to redevelop the property and that it is no longer safe or affordable for this tenant.
Then and only then will social services and the council step in. As he has complex needs he will be moved up the list.
Seconded - I used to be a housing advice worker, the only way we could begin the process of getting someone support is if, sadly, they'd been served an eviction notice. They could then show this to the council as proof of homelessness and the council then has a duty to accommodate them. As he has additional vulnerabilities, also request to get a care assessment done to ensure he ends up in the right system for care (eg supported housing with care Vs a general needs homelessness random hostel that would be unsuitable).
OP have you spoken to your council's private rented sector (PRS) team about the condition of your property? They might be able to help here too
Not your problem. Or your dad’s. Your dad has gone above and beyond for years and it’s his right to get his property back. I think you will need to go down the eviction route because that’s the ONLY way the council can be forced to do something. This guy needs to be in a care home, he clearly cannot look after himself and self neglect is still neglect!
An eviction may actually help the tenant as it would likely help them secure social housing. Charities, the council and social services can all assist.
However due to the disability factors I would suggest you seek some legal advice to ensure all runs smoothly.
Social services should be contacted, along with housing
But you have to understand: landlords are giving so many s21 notices and requiring home owning guaranteurs that people have nowhere to go.
Housing departments can’t keep up. Social services can’t keep up.
People are getting booted out and nobody really has a home owner as a guaranteur so they can’t move into anywhere either.
What happened to this “immediate ban on s21”?
The government need to hurry up and do it. It’s not “if” it’s “when”. Landlords are asking for guaranteurs because they don’t know how to draft contracts while legislation still hasn’t been settled. It’s a mess.
And it means your tenant probably won’t be moved for a while but at least they might get an assigned carer and social worker while they stay there.
Ok this is where our system is crap, Social Services will only step in once the person is evicted and I mean in the streets with their bags otherwise they don’t care as the person is safely homed.
When you say “the council won’t help” can you tell us more about your interaction with them so far? What department of the council did you contact seeking help with this and what did they say?
My reply is a tough read. Next time he goes in hospital, tell the hospital he now has nowhere to go. The landlord has to do some serious work on the property & those premises will no longer be his home as the property is unfit for purpose. The tenant needs proper care, Maybe the hospital can track down his family & get him sorted out that way.
Best to sell the problem at auction
Funny you mentioned this today. My tenant had a stroke last Jan and was on leave from his job. He moved in last summer and said he want to move out next month to live with his gf/partner. Been amicable for me with due notice. Good time to find a new tenant with summer coming up. Possibly increase the rent too.
That said, it's not your problem if he's made homeless. Depending on contract terms and notice (which is quite old now), you'd have plenty reason to evict him even when labor's new nonsense comes into play.