Updating post from Reddit.

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QUESTION
Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago
Should I Section 21 my tenants

Long story short: property management agent wants £3,600 (2 months' rent, reduced from £7,200, 4 months) or tenant eviction if I want to exit the management contract. To avoid lengthy dispute, should I simply serve notice to the tenants?

 

Full story:

A few months ago I was charged twice for a piece of work, I raised an enquiry, a woman responded to say the first charge was the standard call-out charge.

In the past, the agent always sends someone to inspect the issue and provided a quote for me to approve. I was never charged for inspecting an issue. They’ve managed my property for 3 years.

I objected to the charge, and the woman’s manager, a vile man, called me to say based on their Terms of Service, 1) as agent they can arrange any work they see fit, 2) if I exit I need to pay four months penalty (£7,200). The man shouted at me, interrupted me, called me a barbarian and hung up on me twice and mocked me for lack of eloquence (non English native speaker).

I requested to see the ToB. They sent me a Marketing Agreement that I signed which contains no penalty clause, but with a clause that refers to ToB. I asked again they sent me the ToB which is not signed. No proof it was ever given to me. They fished out an email where they claimed I agree to two months penalty.

At this point, I don’t care about missing a few month’s rent. I do not work with agents who slide dodgy terms into fine prints, use scare tactics and abusive language, and believe they can “do what they see fit” with my rental income. It’s a matter of principles.

 

Upon studying, I found

  • disproportionate penalty is not enforceable based on Consumer Rights Act 2015
  • the Marketing Agreement should only apply to the first tenancy agreement. When I renewed the tenancy agreement, I did not renew marketing agreement.
  • The scare tactics (use a no-caller ID number to call and threaten me) constitute aggressive practice under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. It also breaches TPO standards and can be deemed as misconduct.
  • Despite these findings, the dispute will be long and I have to continue pay this company commission which I would like to avoid. The tenant insists on paying rent to the agency because they are afraid of “breaching tenancy agreement."

    To show what the agent’s attitude is like, see this line I just received from them in email: “shall I draft up an Invoice for you to move and resolve this or shall we use our time a bit better by carrying on?” and this is only in an email where they put up professional pretense. Imagine how they spoke to me on the phone when hidden in the no-caller number (I did document the call after and emailed it to them).

    Even prior to the double-charge, the woman already had competency issues which I tolerated, her double charge was also barely tolerable, until that vile man called and abused my on the phone.

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    17
    Posted by Automatic_Sun_5554 1 week ago

    Your agent is exactly that and your relationship with them has nothing to do with your agreement with the tenants.

    You can instruct them to pay rent directly to you.

    I would give the agent 2 months notice and pay their fee - not full rent for that period. If they want to take this further, they can raise a claim against you.

    This disagreement is nothing to do with the tenancy, it’s a service agreement dispute.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    The tenants won't pay rent to me because it's not in their Tenancy Agreement.

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    Posted by Automatic_Sun_5554 1 week ago

    The tenants don’t choose. Their agreement is with you. If you provide them with alternative bank details and advise that the agent no longer acts on your behalf, they have to accept that.

    Their only engagement with the agent is because they act on your behalf. You can end that at which point the tenants has no reason to engage with them.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    I tried explaining this to them. They won't listen... sigh.

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    Posted by Twizzar 1 week ago

    The problem is if the tenancy specifically says to pay the agent and there’s nothing to say that can be changed.

    You could get a solicitor to look it over, write to the tenants and ultimately threaten small claims and eviction for non payment

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    Posted by Automatic_Sun_5554 6 days ago

    Contracts don’t work like that. Imagine the LL moves house and wants to update the service address for notices. The tenants can’t say there is no mechanism to change it.

    This isn’t a term of the contract, it’s informative. And therefore something the LL can update.

    The tenants might listen when they receive s8 eviction for non payment of rent.

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    0
    Posted by Twizzar 6 days ago

    The issue with bad drafting is that only a judge can decide if you should follow the letter or the spirit of the contract. Most people want to avoid going to court.

    If this was an actual issue then you should just get the contract reissued.

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    Posted by Automatic_Sun_5554 6 days ago

    You’re right in principle, but this isn’t a bad drafting issue. The tenant is acting like they ah e an agreement with the agent. The clue for them is in the word Agent.

    The AST will be signed by the landlord or landlords agent on behalf of the landlord.

    They take instructions from the landlord which can be, but don’t have to be delivered by their agent.

    All that is being asked is to pay rent or a different account and the fact that it’s an account in the landlords name should be enough.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    Thank you. It does feel like the last resort.
    I remember being tenants. I can imagine why they're leaning towards a company rather than an individual. When I was on skilled worker visa I was scared to death when served a section 21 notice. I'm still debating whether to do it sigh.

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    Posted by Throwawaygorlfriend 6 days ago

    I would just have an honest conversation with your tenants and tell them that the options are to change the terms of the contract so that they pay directly to you or you will have to serve them section 21. Leave it in their hands and then you won’t have any guilt

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    Posted by StevePerChanceSteve 6 days ago

    We went from Letting Agent to LL midway through our last tenancy. He was fed up with their bullshit. So he reached out directly to me, but not after they had issued a S21 on us, and I’d asked to speak with him. Spoke on phone, negotiated a new rent price as it hadn’t increased since we started 21 months prior. Fair enough. 

    The only issue for us was trusting that when our tenancy ended with the Letting Agent that the new contract we signed with the LL would be valid. If I remember rightly I think he managed to sort it out maybe a week before we would be technically homeless. This was a bit stressful.

    But then came the potentially more annoying part: the LA had control over the login to the TDS deposit. They had to transfer this over to the LL. They took 3-4 months to do this 10 minute job. This was stressful because if we moved out we’d have to deal with them and we suspected they would pocket it all (and we’d have to go through TDS arbitration). It took me 2-3 in person visits in my own time shouting at them to transfer it - LL lives in Abu Dhabi (he’s from there). He was grateful for me doing this, and then when we moved out 3 months later we got our full deposit back (2.5 years total living there) - albeit we should have. 

    Shout out to the LA: UrbanBubble/Alliance City Living/whatever they’ve rebranded to since (Manchester). 

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    Posted by MeesterNeek 1 week ago

    There is definite breakdown in trust between you both and they sound rude and aggressive. As they don’t have a signed contract agreeing to 2 (or 4) months rent you could probably challenge this in a small claims court, but is a case of how far you wish to push it

    My letting agent has a fee of £500 to exit the management agreement, which doesn’t seem to excessive. I don’t know what other companies charge

    It seems completely unfair to punish your tenants by evicting them because of your dispute. You will then incur costs reletting the property, plus possible refurbishment costs and a rental void.

    If it was me I would swallow the 2 months charge

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    Thank you for the feedback. I do not want to ask tenants to leave. We were tenants not so long ago.

    But according to the agent I am stuck with them indefinitely if the tenant continues to stay unless I pay them £3.6K. I will not pay this as it's simply wrong.

    I had originally wanted to wait it out and just don't renew, but wouldn't that mean tenants have to leave any way?

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    Posted by MeesterNeek 1 week ago

    It is a personal choice, sometimes no matter how much you don’t want to because of how galling it is it is better to take the pain for longer term benefits and peace of mind. Totally understand it is a difficult decision just giving you the route I would take personally especially given how they have treated you

    Another consideration is trying to get a feel for how long the tenants intend to stay, if they feel they might be giving notice in say a year it might be better to wait it out

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    Thank you for this, I remember giving similar advice to someone else. It really feels very different when the "injustice," for lack of a better word, falls on you. Hard to swallow.

    Based on our conversation last time they seem to want to stick around for another while.

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    Posted by MeesterNeek 1 week ago

    There was study saying that if someone had a great experience with a company they will tell 2 to 3 people if they have had a bad one they will tell on average 11 people and then those people will also spread the word. One way of making you feel better!

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    Posted by WeirdPermission6497 1 week ago

    So you want to evict your rent-paying tenants because of a disaggreement with your Estate agent? This is cruel.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    Thank you for the feedback. I find this very cruel too. Agents shouldn't have a right to demand extortionate fee or tenant eviction.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    I am asking here before doing anything because I don't like it either, but it appears I have no way out of this other than paying the ransom or asking tenants to leave.

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    Posted by IStillChaseTheWind 6 days ago

    Standard activities really

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    Posted by AnswersQuestioned 1 week ago

    Yeh OP sounds like an idiot too

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    I genuinely want to hear your smart solution that frees me from a vile agent without disturbing the tenants or paying extortionate fees

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    Posted by The-queen-of-swords 6 days ago

    Speak directly to the tenants, try to establish good relationship with them and show them that the change will be beneficial for you both. Be honest with them. Explain why you want to switch the managing company or manage the rental property yourself. Offer them some alternatives (such as paying through an established portal rather than to you directly)

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    Posted by switch_c 6 days ago

    Find a management company you want to go to instead - tell them the situation and explain tenants will likely be long term. Get new management company to foot some / all of bill as part of you moving to them

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    Posted by Daniel-cfs-sufferer 1 week ago

    I have no experience in this whatsoever but couldn't you play the estate agents game ? Something like pretend to throw tenants out get tenants to pay you direct then use the cheap get out clause for estate agent ? Not that I think its the estate agents business how you proceed but maybe there's a way to beat them at their own game ? (Please don't downvote it's just an idea, and I'm fully aware that it may not be possible, was just a thought if landlord and tenants have decent relationship)

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    Posted by happykal 1 week ago

    As do you...

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    Posted by Practical_Carpet5975 1 week ago

    I’ve had a similar situation where the agents are literally so callous they would force you into a no win situation.. it’s so stressful and I 100% agree it is extortion. They provide a totally inadequate, incompetent service so you are constantly worried if your property and tenants are being looked after then when you’ve decided you’ve had enough of paying for a service and not receiving it they resort to extortion.

    Report them to the ombudsman and name and shame them so other landlords / tenants don’t fall foul.

    It’s disgusting, most landlords want to provide a lovely home for the tenants and take care of issues promptly but then you have an agent that you are paying to make this a seamless reality getting in the way and actively disrupting the quality of the tenant and landlord experience.

    Rogue agents need flushing out, there’s no room in the property market for them.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    Thank you. I will report this to their Ombudsman (TPO). I got an ai assistant to draft an email based on the post.
    The subject reads: "Complaint Against [Company Name] - Unfair Penalty, Malpractice, and Misconduct"
    So spot-on.

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    Posted by Practical_Carpet5975 6 days ago

    Wishing you all the best. It’s a battle but when good people do nothing these unscrupulous people prevail. Just shocked that even a high street brand like Haart behave in this way. It’s like reputation means nothing to these people or they think they’re too big to fail so don’t care that their customer base is shrinking with every customer, tenant they mistreat. Very short sighted.

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    Posted by Practical_Carpet5975 6 days ago

    Are you happy to say who is extorting you? I wonder if they’re out of the same spicerhart group of companies..

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    Posted by uklandlords-ModTeam 6 days ago

    Please Keep it Civil

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    Posted by happykal 1 week ago

    Download a phone call recorder. Contact a solicitor.

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    Posted by Saliiim 6 days ago

    Tell your tenants that they must pay the rent to you and that you will consider it unpaid if they send it to anyone else.  If they want you can draw up a new agreement with them that has your bank details on.

    I absolutely would not accept a £3,600 fine for ending an agency agreement, and demanding that the tenant leaves is frankly cruel of the agent.

    The only way you'll sort this is to get the money coming into your account rather than the agent's.

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    Posted by SchoolForSedition 1 week ago

    See if the Unfair Contract Terms Act applies.

    I have small experience with a similarly dodgy type estate agent and once they show their true colours you can reasonably treat them as they deserve.

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    It certainly applies.

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    Posted by ralaman 1 week ago

    Complaint as per the business complaints procedure. -> Complaint not resolved. -> Complaint to its Redress scheme

    genuine complaints only that fall under the redress..not everything

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    Posted by Testacc12345678910 6 days ago

    How is your relationship with the tenant. What if the tenant gave the notice and restarted the next day? Obviously they need to be able to trust you..You have no duty to tell your agent when or who let the property post your contract with them was null and void.

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    Posted by BanzaiMercBoy 6 days ago

    Could you ask your tenants to leave and put them up in a hotel overnight and then start a new tenancy the next day with them directly?

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    Posted by mousecatcher4 6 days ago

    The joke of this all is that the entire effective outcome of all of the recent legislative initiatives to (supposedly) protect tenants will be to drive the whole sector from private mostly decent people, to corporate landlords who will (mostly) be these crooked estate agents acting as owners rather than agents.

    Shelter et al will have done a great job (and have already done a great job) shafting tenants while sporting their usual smug smiles.

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    Posted by tfjbeckie 6 days ago

    You've said you don't mind missing out on a few months' rent if you evict your tenants. So why don't you want to pay the fee to break your contract with the agents? Surely you're losing money either way, so it would seem cruel and unnecessary to serve a S21.

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    Posted by tiasaiwr 6 days ago

    Consumer rights act does not apply in business to business transactions.

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    Posted by phpadam 6 days ago

    >property management agent wants £3,600 (2 months' rent, reduced from £7,200, 4 months) or tenant eviction if I want to exit the management contract.

    What the agent wants is not relevent, what you signed up for in your contract with the agency is. If you didnt sign for this (you seem to say you didnt) then stand your ground and get the tenant to pay directly.

    If the agent wants to take action, they would have to issue court proceedings aginst you and you (if you didnt sign it) can defend against it.

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    Posted by Pmf170 6 days ago

    Serve notice but offer them a new tenancy agreement to commence on the day that the agents agreement expires.

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    Posted by Minimum_Definition75 6 days ago

    Issue a section 21 now, while you still can.

    You don’t have to apply for possession at the end of it. But it will let the tenants and the agent know who is in charge.

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    Posted by StunningAppeal1274 1 week ago

    Your post makes no sense

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    Posted by Potential-Brief36 1 week ago

    Which part can I explain better?

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    Posted by Eryeahmaybeok 6 days ago

    Chat GPT has suggested the following.

    Better Alternatives to Regain Control Without Eviction

    1. Challenge the Agent’s Fees Using Consumer Rights Laws

    Unfair Contract Terms (Consumer Rights Act 2015)

    If the Terms of Business (ToB) was never signed, the fee may not be enforceable.

    A penalty that is disproportionate or hidden in fine print is likely unenforceable.

    Misrepresentation & Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

    Their scare tactics and abusive behaviour could be reported to Trading Standards and the Property Ombudsman (TPO).

    1. Redirect Rent Payments to You

    Explain to the tenants that their agreement is with you, not the agent.

    If the agent refuses to release control, inform the tenants they can pay you directly once the contract ends.

    If necessary, issue a new tenancy agreement directly to them.

    1. Negotiate a Settlement With the Agent

    Offer a reasonable exit fee (e.g., 1 month’s rent) instead of paying the full demand.

    Inform them that you will challenge the charge legally if they refuse.

    A formal "letter before action" warning them of legal consequences might pressure them to settle.

    1. Report & Escalate Complaints

    Trading Standards (for unfair practices and misrepresentation).

    Property Ombudsman (TPO) (if the agency is a member).

    Small Claims Court (if they attempt to enforce the fee).

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