Updating post from Reddit.
I'm a live in landlord and my lodger has lost their key. It was close to home today when they went to the shop. They were only out for about 20 minutes so it was lost very close to home. They went back to look for the key but couldn't fit it anywhere. I've given them a spare set for now but I am thinking of changing my front door lock. I do live in a block of flats and I'm very aware that the likelihood of anyone working out where it came from is slip but I'm also 30F and usually live alone. My lodger leaves next month and I did tell them I would probably be looking to change the lock and would deduct it from the deposit.
This is within our agreement for reasonable costs incurred from losing key and compromising security, but do you think it is reasonable? I just feel so guilty for charging them for a locksmith change for my front door and replacement keys to the shed and the building which will be about £150 in total.
UPDATE: thanks for all responses which were pretty mixed. I've decided I'll speak to the lodger tomorrow but charge directly the costs for three lost keys but then split the amount for the main door lock change as that's for my own peace of mind. I do appreciate changing it myself is cheaper but for the time to learn how to and measure up (I briefly looked on YouTube), go and get the lock then do it myself while working full time and not from home I would rather just pay the £120 for someone to come out and I will offer to split that lock change cost as a goodwill gesture.
Why would you feel guilty ? The lodger made a mistake, which put the safety and security of your flat at risk.
If it was you who lost the key, you would have paid the same to change the locks.
As long as it is reasonable cost, there really is nothing to be worried about.
Compromise solution, if you have a screwdriver, barks are easily changed and you can get decent level security barrels on Amazon for c£30
Win win (ISH)
Don’t even need Amazon: remove barrel, send lodger to screwfix or similar to buy replacement while OP stays in with the door wedged, can’t be more than an hour unless they’re in outer Hebrides, if they are Amazon probably isn’t faster anyway
Unless lodger loses the lock this time :P
Kidding (kind of), but in all seriousness, might be better to take a photo and measurements of the lock and then put the lock back until you have the replacement in hand.
Agreed from a security standpoint, in terms of making sure people know their actions have consequences I’m less inclined to agree
I wouldn't deduct for replacing locks, that's on you if you want to replace locks once they've left, if you think it's a security risk and worth charging for, do so now, not in a month, it will be much less of a security risk in a month. Unless you had your address on the key, it's unlikely someone who found it will try every door in your building hoping it fits, that's if they lost it in the building. You could deduct for the lost key but that's not much of a cost.
yes I meant changing them now, not when they leave. Being a young woman living in London I want to feel secure in my home
Still, charging someone £150 because they lost a key is outrageous. Even as a tenant, I've never seen a charge for a lost key above £25. Replace the barrel for about £30.
I agree with you it's a lot, not disagreeing with that but just to note it's more just losing a key. For one it's three keys, two of which I can only get from my freeholder which is £30 itself. The thing I'm feeling guilty about it the amount it all equates adds up to for sure.
Getting my front door changed is because it's my home and I usually live alone as a single female in London. This is different to it just being a rental where if the tennant loses their key it's their belongings which are at risk not me and my safety.
People saying splitting the costs is something I'll consider as well but again, I think it's not my fault and something you put a lot of trust in the lodger. It's the agreement if a key is lost they are liable for reasonable costs incurred, that doesn't necessarily just mean replacing the keys if security is a risk.
That being said though I will look into doing it myself to make it cheaper though.
It’s not £150 for the key, it’s a life lesson that the key is used in locks and the locks need to be changed.
My lodger lost the keys to the house … three external doors all keyed the same … cost £300 … then a few days later he found the fucking key … in his jacket … that i told him that he should check the pockets because he was wearing it when he lost them … he did and couldn’t find the keys … then suddenly s few days later he found them in the pocket of the same jacket that he obviously couldn’t be bothered to check the first time.
Thanks for your response. It's useful to hear from someone who has been in my situation. So did you change all the locks and charge the lodger for it? I've been semi hoping at some point today they would run into the living room and just announce they had found them 😂
Landlords are not there to teach a grown adult a "life lesson", you're not their parent. They lost the keys, charge them for a replacement set of keys and that's that. I just don't buy how a lost set of keys is any risk to anyone's safety unless you are about to convince me that the chances that whoever found these keys will try every door up and down the street to see which one they open, are more than 1 in a million.
Let me put it this way, if you, yourself, lost your keys but happened to have a second set on hand, say, with a family member, would you pay to replace the locks?
For my own peace of mind, yes I would. As I keep stressing this is about it being my home, my safety and my peace of mind as a young woman living alone in London and not just a normal tenant/landlord relationship
Yes, I read that the first 3 times you said it. I don't think that's what an average person would do and alas wouldn't charge them if I were in your situation. You seem to see yourself as particularly at risk of break-in, much more than an average household in London. You do you of course. I would 100% fight that charge on a deposit, especially if their deposit is protected. I know your lodger has fewer rights than a tenant but I would still refer to the Tenant Fees Act of 2019. The Act guidance expects a new standard door key to be £3 to £10, a specialist door key to be £5 to £20 and a key fob to be up to £50, that's what I consider to be a reasonable cost.
I don't think you know what it's like being a woman living alone in an urban area. I don't think I'm more at risk than anyone else. But I've been followed home a few times before, approached on my estate by a group of guys all trying to get me to go out with them and many other stories than a lot of women just experience daily. It's about feeling safe as much as anything else. It might be excessive but I should be allowed to feel safe in my own home.
Yes, I sympathies with that but you need to put your own personal feelings aside when you're making, essentially, a business decision. The fact that women experience harassment, as sad as it is, is completely unrelated to your lodger's keys. By all means, I would 100% change locks once they've moved out, that's basic safety, but I don't see how you can reasonably charge them for new locks when you have an option to get replacement keys.
Have you told your lodger about your intentions yet? How did they react?
But this is where a lodging agreement is different to a short hold tenancy. It's not just business as it's also my home. I'm trusting someone to share my home with. They get a very nice rent in recognition of it being a lodging agreement rather than a short hold tenancy.
Lodgers have much fewer rights than Tennant's. We have an agreement, all legal and done properly but for example I didn't need to take a deposit, I did, but I don't need to cover it. It can just sit in my bank account or I can do whatever i want with it (obviously I'm looking after it properly, but my point is there is no obligation for me to do so).
I did tell them this yes and they said they understood. I plan to suggest splitting the cost of the lock replacement which would be £60 each, then the £30 for other keys is justified based on being ordered from my freeholder and I have receipts for this (arranged this first thing).
I think it's reasonable to change the lock for your safety and peace of mind. They are easy to replace, I used to think I'd need a locksmith but then youtubed it and it's really simple even without any diy experience.
Compromise solution, if you have a screwdriver, barks are easily changed and you can get decent level security barrels on Amazon for c£30
Win win (ISH)
Do it yourself, it’s £30 and one screw.
If you want it cheaper then you can replace the lock yourself. It's normally very easy.
How about a compromise. Lodger pays for the two £30 keys from the leaseholder. Lodger has the choice of paying for a locksmith OR to buy an equivalent front door lock and replaces it themselves.
£150 is outrageous and indicates emergency call out when you accept there is likely little risk, mitigate the cost while keeping in the spirit of the agreement around “reasonable” and research to replace a lock barrel (r/diyuk sees this regularly) yourself then you’re both looking at sharing minimum £10 with no opportunity for argument or discussion
Lol why should she have to research into how to change the lock herself, when just charging them for their mistake is perfectly legal and in their agreement?
> lol why should she have to research…
Because
> This is within our agreement for reasonable costs
A homeowners stance on ‘reasonable’ will always differ from an occupants stance, with that said (and speaking as someone who has owned and habitually rents) the concept of ‘mitigating cost’ is a legal one as much as a practical one. I don’t see how anyone who accepts the immediate risk as low as warranting an emergency response, though I might be missing something in this tale you have seen
I've clarified in a comment to someone else it's not an emergency call out, replacing all three keys (2 of which are with the freeholder) and then front door lock change is £120. Not an emergency but London pricing.
I sort of agree with person above in the sense that even if it's £30 for me to buy my own lock, going to buy it, look up how to change it etc while I'm working full time and not from home, factors in a time element cost as well.
If I had lost the key to my own place, I would be paying to get the lock changed myself. The lodger won't be as fussed as they are leaving very soon and it's not their home, less risk to them.
How many flats in the block?
ETA: I completely missed the faceted it’s a flat. How many keys are needing provided to the leaseholders? This is the kind of stuff I’d want to know as an owner so I can ensure the charges levied against are reasonable before considering what is passed on to any tenant or lodger
Ah, did think it sounded steep- my neighbour locked himself out after sleepwalking at 2 in the morning once, and he was charged 150 call out.
But no, you shouldn't have to learn how to change a lock yourself, as a consequence for someone else losing a key by accident, unless you're feeling like you want to. And I wouldn't feel guilty for charging your tenant for it. Maybe make sure that's the absolutely lowest cost and shop around a bit so you have a clear conscience there.
I completely agree with everything you say in that reply with the exception of “you shouldn’t have to learn how to change a lock yourself as a consequence for someone else losing a key”. In my view it shouldn’t be needed but it’s a lifeskill all homeowners should have and is 99% of the time quicker and less invested than arranging a locksmith
Why "should" they have it?
Because I see it as equivalent to the difference between diagnosing a basic electrical fault or using a plunger instead of calling an electrician or plumber.
But that was my train of thought before I recognised OP was in a block of flats, although the point still stands:if you own a property then you mitigate the costs in any way you can, including learning how to do ‘basic’ stuff yourself
Ok, that still doesn't explain why a landlord "should" do it.
My post aside here, my old landlord did all of his own DIY stuff to save costs and his work was appalling. Cutting every corner to get it done. I would have preferred he paid for a professional to do it but these were costs that fall on him.
I would prefer to pay a professional to change the lock to my front door than take time to learn how to do it myself. Just in this case as it's the lodgers fault the cost falls on them. I just feel bad as it's so expensive.
Forget the ‘landlord’ label because it’s a lodger sharing the home: any homeowner should know the basics of minimising cost of owning by knowing what they can do themselves. If they want to spunk £100 on getting someone in to hang a picture, or turn the water main off, or isolate a ring main, or change a plug, or change a lock barrel that’s on them.
I see all of that as normal expected mitigation of cost in owning a home.
If a homeowner thinks not doing those things or not understanding how to do those is acceptable then they don’t deserve to be letting out and potentially making profit because they aren’t mitigating cost
It’s in all our interests to know what we can do ourselves and what actually needs qualified professionals
I did emergency call out last week in Wandsworth £750 !!!! £150 lock smith is the going rate including the lock
Yeah to be fair I found the quote of £120 for replacement very reasonable for a locksmith aside from everyone who else saying it's cheaper to replace myself (the extra £30 is for keys with my freeholder I have to pay for extras).
> emergency call out last week in Wandsworth £750
You got raped, thats top level Google result panic buy…you got scammed
Sure did but had absolutely no choice at the time, and it was the girl friend who lost them
Was eleven o’clock on a Sunday night
You had many choices, how much would the nearest hotel room have cost you?
Had to leave for the airport for a funeral!! Look I know I was fleeced but it was just life conspiring 😂 They did replace the lock for that and three keys. If it happens again hopefully weekday 9/5🙄
Hahaha, damb you life! Always conspiring!!!!
Ohhh, not laughing at the funeral airport bit! I’m sure you’d have been more sane with that